so if it costs it costs
or are you in favor of the present systtem cause you free ride some
or is it that others will free ride some off you in the new system ??

cost control of the system has not even been addressed here
this is phase one
get everyone possible directly paying in or thru the state
its called increasing the premium pools

greater participation will mean increased total sector revenue
how much ??
and how much more quantity of services and how much change of prices
well be sure we're headed for serious
cost containment measures

they are unavoidable no matter which path we take

the system is over priced now and getting more so spontaneously
so this plan not only transfers costs but increaes total sector revenue
over the existing system
in ten years the difference will have shrunk to insignifigance

now if this is deficit permahawk hysteria
what can i say

that's just a phoney rationalized alibi
like i'm not anti immigrant i'm pro american

"unless the government suddenly becomes more competent and less political than it has been for the last 7 or 8 decades"

kool aide levels are dangerously high here rusty

the national plans that work better then our's
ARE socialized plans
no need trying to hide this under
a cloak of banality about the comparative performance
in abstracto
between corporate administraion thru markets and state administration thru tax and transfer

that's a badger game at best

and the facts here are overwhelmimg

if you are prepared to stick with a corporate solution for values beyond efficiency fine
but state em

libertarians make their stance plain
then try to find a purely voluntary
marketoidal solution
that in the event usually fails
to convince most folks eh ??
first off we need to make comparative prices and fees transparent

the ability to publicly address costs requires a full discolsure of the present system
i suspect even u would be amazed at the blizzard of signifigantly different prices paid for identical services in the present system's
utterly by design opacity

cost control must come thru a state sunshine system
all payers that are " exchange members"
must become glass houses
all health care outfits open book operations

the anesthetic effect produced on the citizenry
must end
the IV infusing nothing but ignorance
must be removed

Reply Oct 30, 2009 at 08:38 AM

paine said in reply to paine...
the uwe rheinhardt solution:

a one price for everyone system
like most nations now have
ie public pricing
uniform for all

in our case given
the hugeness of the nation
and diversity of our local cost structures
we'd need region by region
adiministered health prices like canada

ultimately of course
i'd prefer a mark up cap and trade system

but public admin pricing seems like
a fine expedient for now

the day of implementing
fancy mechanism designs
will come but only later
-------
candidly you over egged the cake pal

by jumping in with non monetary costing
i agree looking at premature death and wider suffering
any reduction comes at a worthwhile price
the cost becomes just a bundle of ugly detail

but
the monetary cost will indeed be more
even after the shifting and adjusting
and repricing settles down
all this injected outside money will not be off set by reduuctions in flows from other existing sources
by how much ??

ask the wonks

but the net will still be signifigant
even if considerably less then
the wrong heaed exercise
of simply adding up
uncle sam's new injections

never sure how many folks understand how
much of the present system's "free care"
is just cost shifted care
and how a universal transparent
public price administration
could enforce
a reshift to elimimate
no longer necessary "over charge "compensations
to other users and payers of the system