“Could we just admit that Malthus was right? The technology deus ex machina is not going to save us, hasn't been saving us all along.'

18th century whig bruce
becomes

post napoleonic parson bruce

what next from the quill of m wilder

'carlisle was right too …'???

…
if there's a subject to stur the cracked pots

on both sides of the aisle

climate change is it

the right has

gay marriage /abortion/immigration….

the left
climate change climate change climate change ….

…
..

“The best we can do is lock up the carbon fuel physically under control of the developed economies”

wow i got it
carbon blockade

india and china

that will bend the curve …once russia and iran and …

run out of the stuff sort of …

…
“A long-term solution (if one exists) is going to require moving away from the 20th Century consumerist lifestyle “

parson robert f blows the rams horn

but he's never blown any contrary notes
he's always had a belt tightening Rx

why do i think this shifts his wrath off the corporations and on to us

they
-the corporations -

being only our creatures

embody our “real” desires

we eat too much goon around town in suvs too much
buy furs and gadgets and trips to didnee woild

we suck…!!!

no wonder mother earth's skinn is covered in soars
and her hair is falling out

we're on a 24/7 hogs' vacation

…

“A long-term solution (if one exists) is going to require moving away from the 20th Century consumerist lifestyle which has now formed the aspirations of all those in the rest of the world with access to satellite TV.”

why do i seem to hear way too often
“and it will be good for us too “

behind this prophecy ??

i live like an anchorite
but hey

give regular kulacks a brake here

the ultimo barrier to green housing mother brown
is the wild hedge row of private profit plots

one must bulldozzz

the state needs to… just do it
plunge ahead

as a technical fete its straight forward

what we can do

the economics is also straight forward

battle stations battle rations

fine

but forget the goo goo reform fantasy

hey its that bull shit about the infra structure that clogged up the recovery package
that oughta be pure payroll tax holiday

and state budget bail outs

not

'hey gang
lets take this crisis opportunity

to build john gall-blatter's amerika '

meanwhile we let
the bankstah mob

rip

“let em eat their feddy cakes
so long as we get

a better bigger brighter

more tasteful

pub sec …. fuckin' infra structure “

Posted by js paine at 10:04 PM

mark t

”..the belief in the ability of markets to self-correct and regulate the accumulation of risk - the belief that a meltdown like we've just witnessed was not possible - coupled with a concentration of power into the hands of people who held these beliefs “

you are right and brad is just being…
lite and untroublingly amusing

—in his usual florid postivist

ivy way of course—

he restates an obvious largely irrelevent
common place about the hazards of panics

in even the least imperfectly liquid asset system

on the other hand
u in the passage above

state the necessary and relevent point

the point of controversy today
and one hope's

reform tomorrow

——-

now the obvious

if stated

in a compact balanced easy enough way

pleases

a mind in quest of relaxed recreation

one need only read sam johnson's idler
to feel this at its comforting self pleasing best

but times are hard
banks have fucked us

the hammer must drop
and continue to drop

on their heads

i'd only add

“they” believed these things in public
quite conspicuously in fact

and doubtless while counting
their private gains

saw the markets they had created

and recreated

and like jehoval

said they were ….” good”

further
i doubt “they”

failed to remind themselves from time to time

that “they” …as a group ..

were also too big to fail

a consolation
if market reality

proved their public beliefs

to be as false

as the claims

of a college of witch doctors

Posted by js paine at 02:34 PM

“The need we evidently have to blame others for problems easily solved by us is breathtaking”
on that i agree 100%

we could pull up the global economy
just thru a hyper employment fiscal deficit charge

and in fact that is job one

only after everyone is swimming in job offers

here in el norte amigo

might we move on to balance international trade

and rationalize the planet's

trans nat inc

stunted

international forex and credit system

Posted by js paine at 02:33 PM

“…. What of India, by the way? …. Australia? Canada? France? Brazil? Mexico? Or, is the problem only that lone country?9china)…”

anne's question has an answer i think

cut the world into two hemispheres
call one north the other south

though the geography is non literal here of course

the cluster of north currencies are overvalued

the cluster of south currencies undervalued

conjecture :

this “fact” is a spontaneous product
of the global system's hi fi dynamics

now on occasion
a japan will move from south to north

and internal to each hemisphere
there are signifigant forex shifts

but in general for capital export and product import purposes
the two hemi's retain this general north south tilt

obviously the trick is to convince the losers on both sides that this is the best of all great games
despite its clear north hemi bias

so

india and china
mexico and brazil are southees

and france australia and los dos amigos norte
are well …norte

clear enough

anne of course has seen all this many comments ago and more then too many times
but it fails to register for some reason

to her there is no tilt

and the dice aren't loaded

go figure

“the usefulness of those trade models in which free trade is equivalent to perfect factor mobility (capital or labor)”

they're quite beautiful and quite irrelevent
i'm glad we have them like i'm glad we have any

other sound analytic models

they make lovely toys to put on the floor

in front of some freshman's kwanzaa kinara

Posted by js paine at 02:32 PM

sewells

”.. the only rights that exist are individual rights because individuals are the only sentient entities and that no individual exists in a state of priviledge in respect to other individuals…. the only valid purpose of the state is to restrain bullies from enforcing their will on others; i.e., violating their rights.”

with that credo…
you are ready to fight the revolution ….

the revolution of the late 18th and early 19th century
we the weebles

defeated the estates and guilds back then

as well as the “legitimate” autocrats

now we come to your paradigm incarnate
the last 200 years or so….

perfecting

our open system

obviously you don't want
a naked market only mediated

class clash system..right ???

so how much
of a tax /borrow spend and transfer system

wired up and operated by the modern “welfare” state

do u want ???

zero ??
or is some of it justified

as bully-victim comp ??

so how much
sweden ?? sweden lite ???

south carolina heavy ???

plus how much
state applied

control harness

do you recommend

say

for any sociopathic

rough housing bully outfits

whether they be

corporations or unions

both are out there
roaming the market jungle

this credo
to me

comes off like

modern times

as viewed from

the passenger seat of an suv

social reality ??

out there is what ???

large semi-visible forces made of hu-meat

and the bastards are forever flocking and mobilizing
and mob-ing up

and demobilizing and remobilizing

just to thwart your crusoe lkie
ample opportunity for everyone utopia

the fix is in bub

a fix here and a fix there

heel

that's the catlytic source

of the very pace and pattern

of our social metabolism

one fix or other king of the heap ..for a while
or some grapple more or less open

between

a set of fixes

and counter fixes

the ceaseless battle of the network inter-archies

the dreadnoughts of the group /class struggle
always striving

to cross THE T on each other

and all you see that's real
is the driver next to you in the suv ???

hey maybe you are that driver

so much the worse for you
and

your false sense

of control

over your own destiny

Posted by js paine at 02:31 PM

anne
“the university is surely part of the world

and thoroughly essential”

paine mock:

“The penitentiary is surely part of the world
and thoroughly essential “

see anne ???

hollow is as hollow does

the faculty
of the local state u

needs as much reformation

as

the wall guards and warden

of the local state pen

society in a roughed out but essential way
during any one epoch

produces matched sets of institutions

recall
attica and columbia

vacaville and berkley

…
the welfare state

was a secular extension

of the protestant charity movement

is that what homer and archy need

more secular charity???

” If someone wants to lead the trend they should quit their job, move to Bangladesh and compete for a job in a wonderful, low-cost utopia while waiting for their globalist benefactors to arrive.”

delightful !!

i have a few nominations
from right here on our sheeeeew

the squaring of the circle

here on the home front

would require

free immigration

hyper employment uncle fed deficit algorithm

a financial flow congestion tax algorithm

and

a balance product trade dollar algorithm

that oughta be an easy order
for the shining elected jack asses on the hill

to provide

Posted by js paine at 02:22 PM

do you want an america like sweden ??

fine ..noble even

but i submit this conjecture to u:

its a dream..

or if not

if it came true if clio has it up her sleeve

then

i'd have to say

we'd not be in kansas anymore

which requires a prior tornado

to whurl up to nordic oz

america may get some mighty social thunder storms
but i don't see no

stinking red tornado yielding storm clouds

forming on the political horizon

do u ???

—-

okay united states of nordic america then…

high-opportunity, low-inequality, low-poverty society.”

of twenty nine million souls

a drop in the global bucket

imagine if all of europe and japan and norte amigo
had swedish job characteristics

we'd need three indias and 4 china's plus ….
and we'd still need to restrict immigration of skilled folks like we do now de facto

in most employment sectors

Posted by js paine at 02:21 PM

“Economic growth and progress is progress in social cooperation, not regress in competition red in tooth and claw.'
to counter pose co operation and competition

is dangerous

like markets and hierarchy as u call it bruce

or

like meliorism and revolution

these diadic contradictions
interact

albeit often sharply at odds of course

but interact never the less

to produce development

i'm certain u agree bw
by saying

“All the more reason to do it.

I am an old Whig, we Whigs love us our revolutions”

i miss understood to begin with
but now i see the light

you were calling for more blue bonnet co operation now
to counter balance by counter attack

after the recent 30 years

of sanguinary free range corporate comp-rampage

the two alternate in the saddle

fair enough
reform is reform

then there's MY WAY

as a blood thursty jacobin myself
i'll wait for my few brief moments

obviously in the interim
your retro whig gig

still qualms me some.. i must admit

but hey

unite we will if unite we must

Posted by js paine at 02:20 PM

How is making that mechanism(the state) more ubiquitous going to solve the problem? I honestly don't get it.”

what's not to get ???

kong inc tamed by uncle sam
are u suggesting going further toward gub-min would reduce

trans nat corporate power in society ??

what have the last 30 years shown us ???

don't get too caught up in this enabling state corporate welfare gig

the babbit libertarian sticcckkkkk

yes the congress is now in a corporate full nelson
yes the great bail was corporate welfare with zero public welfare

okay so we gotta brake the korporate power hold

if you ask me can we

i'll say

well….we got no alternative

Posted by js paine at 02:19 PM

u may be able to find brutes behind some of these anti globalization comments

but that won't vindicate the on going domestic
de industrial policy of korporate amerika

a strike is a crude weapon of negotiation

so is a punitive tariff tied to the rate

any CB has undervalued its currency

ie

a tariff that threatens the trans nat profit slurry

how else can the elected agents of us amer-wageling
majority types

get the attention of the laputa tower trolls??

a balanced trade forex rate for the dollar ASAP
is not vicious nativist lunacy

don
as usual good shit on trade gains and ghouls

my thought on that is balance trade
is a self assetable national right

and a fair right to manage our trade till we get to balance

no one as you know
has any reason

theoretical or otherwise

to doubt we could get to balanced trade

by forex policy —perhaps assisted by a equalizer tariff system —-

and that once we got there

and stayed there

the global system could proceed

under steadier more robust conditions

——————
obviously

we don't need corporate globalization

if we have a system of nationally open markets

we need globalization only
of our planet's cutting edge techniques of production

which brings us to scale effects and resource location

answer to both
immigration open

near as possible to spontaneous immigration

till the worlds population is alligned with its resource locations and is concentrated enough to caputure optimal density effects

as to this line:

“whether immigration improves the lot of present residents, taken in the aggregate, depends on economies of scale. I doubt if they are present in the U.S. today.”

well my guess norte amigo oughta house and job
10% of the globes pop 6 hundred million american residents

not because of production scale effects
more basically because

of the net global welfare gains

that result from

a self optimalizing allocation of living hu-meat

ya i know
i'm with ya and against ya

no matter where you stand

for a forex battle agin closed borders

a policy centaur

half noble horse half hook wormed yahoo

Posted by js paine at 02:18 PM

“inequality of productive contributions “
don't you mean inequality of market rewards for

productive contributions

in the real job world

real markets generate accidental happenstantial

comp rates

proof?

same job different pay
everywhere one looks

the hu cap paradigm is a scam
the high skill vs low skill comp

is rationalized

by means no more realistic

then in some clark-land construction

pure mirage …pure fantasy

market mammon apologetic
is theodicy at its worse

Posted by js paine at 02:17 PM

we need global cutting edge tech flows
and job-able folk flows

not global corporate capital and profit flows

“… globalization enriches some rapacious corporations and despotic rulers, and vulnerable workers are exploited.”

not a bad summation

” But” here comes the lib-pwog meliorative impulse

” access to the American market and to employment by U.S.-based transnational firms has helped improve the lives of hundreds of millions of Chinese, Indians, and others in recent decades”

get the point ?? of course
do good by rewarding bad here

that by coinicidence does good …else where

why ??
well their urgently needy poor gain over there

while our homer simpson type

pleb headed philistine kulack white proles lose here

trade off

obvious why those pleb heaed homers are protectionists
they're selfish greedy helots with swell heads

doing jobs any thirdee could do and scoopin up rents alongthe way

ahh the bribed sector of the wage class what a bunch of stinking pigs eh ??

cut to hunan

a good earth peasant boy
striving by hand to grow his subsistence

in a tiny rice paddy

“could he use a wage job buildin' car parts “

you bet !!!!

trade off trade off

notice the assumption

trans nats are as much a part
of current global social reality

as the pacific is of the earths current surface

this is the result of
the glorious wall fall of 89

this is its “street value”

unchallenged trans nat hegemony

hell we don't even have any viable alternatives
or even drafts for one

only eclectic cleverness like dani r 's
or this hideous simps

collision mats for homer

or

reich's “get some hu-capbrothers and sisters

some symbolic analytic laboring capacity

america can all be up there earning goodl;y comp

holding free lance jobs

requiring the top 20% of world market skills

hats off to
trade off

Posted by: paine | Link to comment | Jun 02, 2009 at 07:42 AM

paine says…
fred

u bring up key stuff
payroll tax cut

full employment deficits

over valued dollar

note all three run counter to trans nat inc “objectives”

they want …stagnation job market misery …
further de industrialization

recall an over priced dollar buys more then it ought to
nice for dollar based trans nats

no matter what their game is

but why repeat the obvious
how many divisions does social justice have

deployed here in norte amigo

Posted by: paine | Link to comment | Jun 02, 2009 at 07:50 AM

paine says…
example of current malthusianism

“the only way for the Indians and the Chinese to have an 'American' standard of living is for the Indian and Chinese to displace the Americans, the Europeans, and most of South America”

trade offs trade offs

trade up trade down

mother earth has her limits eh ??

so you figure what ??

this lowering of the american standard for the standard american is mother's bitter milk ??

malthus was a rentier monster

today we have green rentier monsters

trust fund belt tighteners

high hu cap belt bucklers

and assorted monkish ass holes

Posted by js paine at 02:15 PM

“it seems doubtful that taxpayers will even be repaid our $60 billion”

what tax payers ??
uncle borrowed the dollars from the fed

think of it that way

monetized and likely to be all spent on real economy shit that has positive real economy consequences

unlike the bank bail

but more broadly

paying on the incremental debt ??

again what tax payers

servicing/retiring
public debt oughta be the burden

of those who benefit from the public debt

and in proportion to that benefit

just like social security

gadanken exercise:

take the entire federal debt today
and start deducting

the” strategic defense “budget

during

the kold war years

i bet with a little valid compounding

you can erase the entire present federal debt

so who benefited from the strategic defense budget ??

not me and you
unless you have large corporate holdings

valid
homeland defense over the last 60 years

doesn't look like much of an off set

Posted by js paine at 02:13 PM

bw:

“In a world of markets and hierarchies,
it wasn't the market that failed,

it was the hierarchy.”

yes !!!!

Posted by js paine at 02:12 PM

bruce

“causative overdetermination”

indeed !!!!

a group motive has no need of integrity

—-

btw
do u expect your adhd challenged fans here

like moi

to swallow all that well ordered prose in one gulp ??

at any rate after a couple of wash down brakes
i did

nice flow
old man river

—-
a few cracks :

“Rentiers need renters”

what ??
rentiers can't hold mortgages ???

either directly thru potter's bank stocks
or indirectly

thru milky's securities ??

“let's not pretend that there's no theme”

and you have a counter theme

key word

“staid “

u my friend are calling for a return to staid

plaid maybe but staid

the buggzy
fizz and zip of it all

these past 30 years

leaves u like

your friends and fellow members

of the plebian american legion

elmer fuddled

“where's my beautiful wife ???
where's my large automobile ???

where's my careful councillor position

at the head table ???”

'mc-robowashed away sah …sorry 'bout dat '

the younger bush Ownership society campaign
was a very main frame application

of new speak

under the painted mask
the skull : debtorship society

ahh you poor respectable folks you

come on over to the dark side
join me in the free swim

i say walk away from it all
and

take a dive good people

into the wild and wooly waters

below

better
a poor property less

mcjobbled

cash and carry lulu

then a credit rating
shackled

cold sweat straw boss type

corporate peon

with last decades skills

todays mortgage

and tomorrows pink slip

——-

bruce you're not only ..an old school
gardner means institutionalist

as i once ironically proclaimed

after an earlier all points advisory of yours here

.. i'll be damned if that didn't make u

a throw back enough

now i find you're a capra corny throw back to boot

playing a bitter sweet taps
over

the late s and l's

of new deal confection

a kinda ownership society guy yourself
only on the square

——-

well sir bruce
i suggest u

screw the fudd lovin fudd protecting racket

screw buildin'
the new deal II scambola

lets u and i go out and find our selves
one of Rottwang's

robot bitchettes

or if either of us prefers

one of old greeces ganymedes

and dance till

our heart explodes

————-
anne writes

“Obama and Congressional Democrats are demonstrating with increased bluntness the greatly reduced and diminishing value of suffrage”

massively correct and elegently worded

i might enter a manic portal

never expected the likes of that passage from u

now if we could only lever-age
decent folks like bruce w and mark t

out of their

fractional reserve seating

at the local Dembotic shammany hall

Posted by js paine at 02:10 PM

pat s :

“Reagan also did away with income averaging”

very astute point

in fact the whole de indexing movement
of that era

spear headed by daddy bush

was nothin but bad for us all uz small catfish

long story ..

btw
i'd like to see uncle sam

not only restore income averaging

—a great tout of my hero wild bill vickrey-

but use it as a trojan horse

to get thru a life time averaging option

way to tax wealth

hint
once you include all transfers as taxable income

to the beneficiary …..algorithms abound here

fun for wonks of all ages

Posted by js paine at 02:09 PM

“There is no way to inflate ourselves out of this as there is too much slack in the labor force …”

love it
u mean we couldn't get to hyper employment even iif we tried ???

” transferring the bad debt from banks

to the government will tie the governments hands going forward “

how ???

surely not eh ??

if the fed monetizes the deficits
recall your slack argument

so long as that holds no inflationary consequences

models got built
so we wouldn't miss the interconnects

between our assumptions

perhaps the fed only has to believe monteitizing
will lead to inflation

and refuse to monetize the hyper employment deficit

which what..

leads to higher debt service costs

thru out the system??

———

old school rules

“This of course could all be avoided with a debt free currency and a single (sovereign) issuer of credit that auctions credit in measured amounts. Auctioning credit could also bee tailored for social and environmental purposes … A debt free currency and auctioned credit would give the productive rather than the rent seeking sector of the economy predominance …”

now add nationalization of all land and …
single payer health and pensioning

and hyper employment macro..

lets take this people's charter to the king

———————

once more on the fractional reserve front :

mr anti fractionals
you will let firms leverage eh ???

what if they're “investment firms ” ???

your heinous early 18th century cyclops
of a “multiplier “

pops back into play

ready to speed both ups and downs

btw why are downs faster then ups ???

paine says…
i tease

but the guys wrestling with the serpent ocean here

he's trying to up root the whole damn system

gob bless him
keep swinging that broad axe

a list that's both isn't a list
and is an endless list :

“1. higher interest rates

2. high servicing costs

3. finally selling equity a la Squanderville

4. misallocation of resources due to 1, 2, 3

5. other?”

2 is 1 right ?? or are terms going to shorten too ??

3 is gibberish

4 misallocation between what investment and consumption ??
callinng doc pareto

a co-mission

of the nasty inter-temporal claims fallacy

in progress

nb
we got slack baby no crowding out possible

if we lift demand we'll induce investment

plus increase consumption

uncle can borrow his brains out
till the slack is gone

then..oh shit we solved the problem eh ??

5 could by expanded indefinitely

6 another “other”
7 another another “other”(another squared “other”)

8 another cubed ” other”….

n +5 another to the nth “other ”

Posted by: paine | Link to comment | Jun 01, 2009 at 10:55 AM

paine says…
“Agree on every point except nationalization of land”

oh but that's key sir
absolutely key

we could end lot bubbles in a trice
and we could pay for all infra structure

and re-allocate folks to optimal density locations

by encorporating net external welfare effects

in our local lot rent rates

ie in detroit today
a smart sam plan

would be paying you to stay in

or move into

certain neighborhoods there

national ground rent systems
are a wonderland few return from

without a trance like smile on their face

do go there

Posted by: paine | Link to comment | Jun 01, 2009 at 11:05 AM

paine says…
anne

you think clear as hell

and ground yourself in data

this site needs ten of u

but when a soul comes here
and tries

to copy the gods

tries to think bigger then prudence

and training dictates

why not welcome them ???

mr anti fractional has his hands
on a big bad beast here

okay so his submarine has a few screen doors

its only a virtual sub

no one will drown

Posted by: paine | Link to comment | Jun 01, 2009 at 11:10 AM

paine says…
“It was the slashing of tax rates that began the leverage for Reaganomics “

but if debt payments are deductable …???

its all in the net spread my friend
changes in the net spread

that's what makes leverage rock …or roll over

Posted by js paine at 02:04 PM

“We weren’t always a nation of big debts and low savings: in the 1970s Americans saved almost 10 percent of their income… It was only after the Reagan deregulation that thrift gradually disappeared…, culminating in the near-zero savings rate … on the eve of the great crisis. …”

putting aside topic A is the big disgrace
ie

uncle needs to shift the bottom 80% of households excess debt to uncle's

“national account”

but …..

this household over borrowing binge
cloaks the inner workings here

the accumulation rate of our upper 5% increased

and ys the borrowing for household purchases
by our bottom 80%

increased even more

notions of household savings decline

makes this into a fall from calvinism

but really the bottom 80%

were under credit constraints mostly

once the constraints on borrowing loosened

—most against lot values—-

but on the classic ratios 

like required income to payment

initial equity share etc …

of course in the last 8 years the sky became the limit

and the over borrowing curve inflected up considerably

—-
problem

how do you maintain adequate effective demand while reducing the wage rate trajectory???

facing a case of stagnate wages
increase the fuckers credit lines

and

now add to the growing debt to income ration for the middle 60% of households

their false increase in lot values

ie

possible bubble collateral collapse

and you sustain average effective demand over three cycles

but there are limits here

you can't get away from arithmetic

poof

shit eventually comes out

the ratios clamp
the default line gets crossed

toxic confections begin to secrete their poisons …

ps if this point was made in prior comments

i haven't read em yet

change this comment to :

like y sez

———————-
“the argument seems simplistic”

if one is to analytically di-sect a historical interval
to discover causal patterns

one hopes — if one wants to avoid

the

'just one damn thing after another'

school —

to reach at least one necessary

if not sufficient simplicity

that simplicity might in this case
our just past epoch

reside inside( or behind )

a nest of policies

all motivated or justified at any rate

by one maxim

' gubmint is not the solution gubmint is the problem '

behind that hog wash of course
if one is curious to find the demi-urgic culprit

— which pk isn't ultimately—

one looks for

cher's late husband's brother

cui bono

and that gets ….well…

bi partisan in consequence

and

corporate tower in origin

Posted by js paine at 01:51 PM

“it seems doubtful that taxpayers will even be repaid our $60 billion”

what tax payers ??
uncle borrowed the dollars from the fed

think of it that way

monetized and likely to be all spent on real economy shit that has positive real economy consequences

unlike the bank bail

but more broadly

paying on the incremental debt ??

again what tax payers

servicing/retiring
public debt oughta be the burden

of those who benefit from the public debt

and in proportion to that benefit

just like social security

gadanken exercise:

take the entire federal debt today
and start deducting

the” strategic defense “budget

during

the kold war years

i bet with a little valid compounding

you can erase the entire present federal debt

so who benefited from the strategic defense budget ??

not me and you
unless you have large corporate holdings

valid
homeland defense over the last 60 years

doesn't look like much of an off set

Posted by js paine at 01:46 PM

no not really

Posted by pinky at 01:46 PM