feel
like my science has let me down

i can't discover where it sez
a whole sector effectively into de fault
can't be resurrected by uncle sam
even after a reasonable time frame
the living system analogy fails us here

ps
i knew that zombee metaphor
would come back to bite us in the mental ass

is any thing here irreversible

its not like a shut down of a coal mine
or a refinery or an electric generator

at what point will we face that ???

and even if and when

whats a brief shock like that gonna prove

the panic here is a comparatively small
sub population might get their assets fried
assets that oughta get fried
i'l admit i've turned amokish

but maybe this is the social systems
higher power working thru
the agents of the venal themselves
stomping on the wayward invisible hand here
with its sublime foot

"I strongly suspect there will be a second version of this bill. It will probably be better and require less nose-holding by Prof. Krugman and yourself"

i fear your right ndd...how tedious
just when we might ave found out what a real crises
looks and feels like ....after all the hype

i'll prolly wake one day this wek and feel as let down
as i was by ......the cuban missile crisis

"Dems plus enough repubs to get a win. They delivered their votes, and the Republicans did not deliver theirs."

ahh the old aisle cross double cross

serves em right

the feckless machiavells
chris wins
the imitation
of "the high call of the loon " contest
hands down

with this effort

"Maybe the US Army should take the lead here and impose, say, the Swedish solution of nationalization"

bravissimo
hey
"freedoms just another word for ...."

so it goes
my dearest fengula

some of us are feelin so free
we cry
" skunk the bunk "

those of us that is
who have been proled by the system already

after your paper egg crumples under u
come join us for a financial skinny dip
the water's nice and kool

"letting the dysfunctional shadow banking system continue to implode"

sweden baby sweden ....sweden baby sweden
"Either that, or it'll be 1932 by the middle of October"
ya
but our choice this time round
don't got an FDR

its a choice
between hoover and ...grover cleveland
all jokin aside

"amerika can't handle a swedish plan "

that is the wages of 6 decades worth
of
big media malarky
"Are we back to the Fed and Treasury acting on a case-by-case basis? "

and as harvey f would sourly yowl

"is that so bad
"Don't underestimate how quickly this could spiral out of control "

who sez ??
the fed stands on guard ..eh ??

"That's been Stirling Newberry's opinion"

i'm crest fallen

stirling and me....
and
who else bruce ???
herb stein's boy ???... ugh i'm so f ing dull

"who sez?"

Liquidity trap sez. Unle Ben has nothing but string to push on.

Posted by: Patrick | Link to comment | September 29, 2008 at 02:17 PM

paine says...
bruce

obama crafty like fdr in 32

really sir
i'd give anything...if it were so

but where's his secret brain trust
laying up recipes
for a new AAA and NRA ???

what of larry and austie and what's her name
that other flatlander hack

ARE THESE ADVISORS MERE FRONT MEN

LIKE PATTONS DUNKIRK FORCE ????
Liquidity trap"

i think we got a demand with no supply crisis pending here
pat...so maybe the banks use the
"so u want a working capital loan he bub
....then just pull my finger "trick
but
for now
there'll be no push on a string thing
that comes later
when the finger fart
has dried up the payment flows
and the real production economy gives way under us all
if this is big D II
its kinda goin heavy on the prelims

using august 07 the first major recognition
the house lot bubble had gone pop
as the start
we're at the fall of 1930
last time things were way more juicey by this point

but still
not many even by october of 30
knew what lay ahead
would be so so so horrendous

a riddle :

fiat money costs nothing
so why do we economize on it ?????

fear of a modern credit system
reminds me
of how we fetishize money

we have no
fear of our electricity grid
and that's even newer

of course the public is clueless about electro magnetism

they use analogies from water pipes

of course even the laws of fuid flow escape most of us too

water running up hill and all

Posted by: paine | Link to comment | September 29, 2008 at 05:44 PM

paine says...
fengula

what you call
the good of the nation
is like the barber's bowl
don q thinks is a magic helmet
"These are people, who think this problem can be addressed by eliminating the capital gains tax"

ahh
bruce a pure class good
like the zero tax on cap gains
has no wrong moment
no wrong bill
to be attached to

why
it amends the social universe

Posted by: paine | Link to comment | September 29, 2008 at 05:57 PM

paine says...
"tax cuts produce revenue,
ignorance is knowledge,
bullying is strength,
and torture is justice"

such beauty such balance

phrases worthy of..... emerson

"In other words, the banks have a gun pointed to their heads and are threatening to pull the trigger unless we hand them $700 billion."

nice line indeed

but dean forgets
last time i looked...that's our head to
forget the DLC

the corporate front is broader then that

btw it is a very odd turn
to call for temporary nationalization
after scolding those about to socializes the loses
created by the blow back
from the great games that privatized the gains

saving corporate capitalism
by letting it hide out
from the enraged mob
disguised as socialism

anne
i beg u
please
don't find a gender motive under every rock

bruce lie myself can well claim
st hill might have been playing politics
last winter over the mortgage default crisis

promises you can never be forced to keep

--------

back to the nationalization gimmick
betwen that and this hideously smelly
rotten eggs for fresh eggs exchange ????

not a dimes macro diff
as to distribution of costs and loses

show me the money
and i mean we the weebles money
either way so far i see wish sandwitc time for us
or is it stone soup ????

taxpayers from the future coming at us like so many terminators

i'll chance that

btw

show me your assumed
tax burden distribution
over the next 30 years
bruce as usual good comment

conjecture in this sense
no logical proof exists at this point

facts can be partial things
at any rate the nub here:

"The giants could not manage administratively the necessary judgment and due diligence, and so they didn't"
correct
and the result ??
the originators became commisioned used car salesmen not anal retentive loan officers

but that fact alone hardly proves the case for lower systemic costs

nor does te lack ofegulation ofthese new originator types
or the regulation of new security design
or new trading markets or absence of new trading markets..etc etc

Posted by: paine | Link to comment | September 29, 2008 at 10:35 AM

paine says...
bruce

of course i favor these stream lining hyper integrating org morphs
i vote for a green light to anything
that sharpens the struggle
and hastens the final socialization
of the whole ball of wax
anne
my point is simple enough

those of us like me
who are in quest of a higher better faster more economical
model for socialism
ought perhaps to notice when the corporate hegmons
hyjack nationalization pro temp
and by doing so demonstrate
the superiority of
a further socialization of
the production systm's credit grid
only to restore
the old private profit regime once
the mop up is over

the mob hardly realizes what's going on here
its furious knows its getting f ed
but has no coherent wiring diagram
that for example
draws a line between
the fiscal budget
and its direct effect on the production system and its hiring rate
and largely self insolating
balance sheet fiddles additions and subtractions
like this 700 bill bail
"Homogenization is the enemy....very costly in terms of economic performance "

bruce assuming you mean rate of innovation here
not efficiency of operation...how late 80's of you

".... people, who are impressed by economies of scale,
are easily fooled into thinking there are economies of centralization "
indeed

lenin looked at the german war economy
and
extrapolated the ultimo in centralization
soviet inc
but then he implemented the nep
leaving it to stalin et al
to impelement
the greatest centralization up to that date

surely there's a range of both scope and scale
inside which class choice may operate
and outside of which
the limits of our latest
mechanical hearts are discovered
and
----here cometh my on the other hand addition ----
the un necessary burdens of preserving
our worn out
insufficient "natural " hearts emerge as well
"both parties are suddenly free to compete for the support of The Little Guy on Main Street"

and what a brain trust jury we are too ???
decades of public dis information
out of both party elites
leaves a weeblery outraged indeed
but without a clue
where the high road might be

Posted by: paine | Link to comment | September 29, 2008 at 11:36 AM

paine says...
vlad
i may have a purchase on your head quarters location now

just another ersatz
gosplan survivor
giving us
the old babbit university rasberry
in your heart
are u crying " bah humbug " ???

anne

okay
i agree there must e a version of total nationalzation
of the commanding heights of the financial system
can be done without the wall street elite losing their sense of empowerment

but if it's found and used
it'll be a very sorry excuse
for the notion of whole nation institutionalizing
where social return and social justice
march forward
arm in arm

unless the plan makes wall street hollow ...

now will it ???

let's face it
the emergency is precisely
a call by wall streets elite
to bail out ...wall street

do you think they will lose the handle on this deal ???

take the war measures of fdr
i so much admire
now that was nationalization
a time when in fact when
the us production system was effectively
under a 4 year plan
and grew its real output capacity
like never before or since.....
it ended with a return to bizz as usual
my guess
alas
the road back to privateering
after a sweden banking holiday
will prove toxic
to further progressive measures

just
as what morphed out of the arsenal of democracy
proved to be
from the very first few years of truman
a sorry pattern of retreat retrenchment reversal
from the high line of national production planning
a pattern
that showed us who's boss
and proved once again
what's best business
is whats good for us all

after re-privitization
comes a taboo zone

Posted by: paine | Link to comment | September 29, 2008 at 12:52 PM

paine says...
save free checking

what a battle cry fengula

OH GOD

the air pirate
might put us into .... a financial death spiral

if this past weekend proves anything
it proves one thing for sure:

strip off the fig leafs
and some chunk or other
of wall street ( like king kanute)
rules
the economic waves

regardless of white house mind sets
and the qualified unqualified majority "will"
of the amerikan weeble-ry

Posted by: paine | Link to comment | September 29, 2008 at 05:55 AM

paine says...
"the leftists" bj ???

to u
the left starts at your mail box

"budge russia "

how brown cow ???

double uncle's nuke /anti nuke budget ???

Posted by: paine | Link to comment | September 29, 2008 at 06:01 AM

paine says...
"Where is the grown up? "

those fond of
the collection of stale beer mugs
we call grown ups

oughta be ground up

Posted by: paine | Link to comment | September 29, 2008 at 06:04 AM

paine says...
"These people should be kept as far as possible from Washington, D.C."

elite speak ???

i doubt it

my guess they're muttering

"bring em on "

the orange county shiny suit rubes
reagan brought to town
mingled very well
with
the ivy elite

look who "done well" from that revolution

the nouveau riche lower right
is royalist
by aspiration
if not pedigree
laff
"attention span "

didn't reagans reign teach u anything ???

Posted by: paine | Link to comment | September 29, 2008 at 06:12 AM

paine says...
two edged sword line of the day:

"It's really kinda nice to have people like you around the forum ... for comic relief"
"The sale would further concentrate Americans’ bank deposits in the hands of just three banks: Bank of America, JPMorgan Chase and Citigroup'
in and of itself no big whooop
so long as alternatives remain legal

i say this fully aware of
the neo populist small is beautiful
bruce w conjecture :
small credit orgs out perform big ones
folks cut out the sweden bit

sweden is a midget
more like a polite affluent rogue state here

not the hub of the whole maghilla