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an exchange of sorts

call it 

re "john birching "

the mind dungeon where the liberal

hegemony of the early 60's jailed the out side the box

right 

of course as a faux threat 

to peaceful people everywhere

they were a very effective

humanizer

for jfk camelot

and

his

white knights

ah those were the days...

Freedom's 

round table 



Posted by js paine

September 10th

2:08pm 





I'm a big fan 

of taking the best of communism 

and the best of capitalism 

to make a potent, de-wussifying stew. 

National healthcare, yes, 

but it should have a punitive structure

 and an emphasis on moral values: 

rights for blastocytes,

 pain relief according to financial worthiness 

and the opportunity to work off 

the co-payment, which will be settled 

in binding arbitration.

As for the GWOT,

 I've long been 

an advocate of outsmarting the evildoers 

by -- get this -- 

nuking ourselves. 

Perhaps one of the blue states, 

to show everyone 

what we think of appeasement.

I'm getting a bit long in the tooth 

for the manlier ways of settling IP disputes.

 The machetes of my fondly remembered youth 

have given way to ambushes and night raids. 

Yet one can still support in spirit 

what the flesh but dimly recalls.

Pride, . No one can take that from me. 



Posted by J. Alva Scruggs

September 10th

2:20pm 





JSP, there was a time 

when I thought

 the most important thing to do, politically, 

was force 

the outside the box middle class right 

into a marginal dungeon.

 That dude going on about torture and coming down hard on evildoers 

could be the poster boy.

 Mr. Harper Valley PTA on steroids himself,

 with a Browning.

 Those are the people running to the border

 to defend it against the people who come here

 to cut the lawns of their bosses.

It can't be done,

 even if it were desirable.

 But something might be done about the way the bosses work them. 





Posted by J. Alva Scruggs

September 10th

3:10pm 









work who j alva ????

the mex or the tex ??? 



Posted by js paine

September 10th

8:20pm 





Either, both. 

I was thinking mainly of the wingnuts.

 I figure they'd have an easier time

 pulling the pickles out of their asses 

if their leaders 

didn't keep shoving them in.

Of course, they might like the empicklement.

 The pro-security state 

"neolibertarian" seems to thrive with it.

 So who knows. 



Posted by J. Alva Scruggs

September 10th

8:58pm 









Never accept a pickle from a liberal crusher with a goatee. 



Posted by J. Alva Scruggs

September 11th

12:27am 





i looked at that mutualist site 

according to my daughterly unit 

left libertarianism 

is a spontaneous protect 

a meme weed patch that grew wild 

on a lot of liberal arts college lawns

since b4 "seattle "

isn't that vulgar enough for you ????

but why bother to use 

the scrap memes piled up on that site 

for anything 

a game of pick up sticks is impossible the scrap has congealed

only if you want to rescue a lost soul relative

would you take 

a cuttin torch 

to that metalic

artificial briary

to this degree i'm a libertarian

let the wet eared 

coed kooks roost cackle 

and flock as they may 

let em fly 

left or right

they can't do much 

harm or good 

either way 

as to mistah goatee right

he ain't about 

to shoot off anything beyond his mouth

and his little elvis

think of this stridency

as a self defined

rite of passage to an 

low hanging masculine 

imago

hey it ain't a dueling scare but ....

for a traveling salesman 



Posted by js paine

September 11th

1:18pm 





Left libertarianism 

has been around a lot longer than that!

 It's not a trendy thing.

 Mutualism is a little different from egalitarian transaction libertarianism 

in that they don't reject the labor theory of value, 

nor common ownership.

 Kevin Carson, the mutualist blogger,

 is a generally good debunker 

of various neoliberal and randroid canards, 

and a pretty good explicator of radical economics 

in general. 

So, no vulgarity there, Mr. Paine. 



Posted by J. Alva Scruggs

September 11th

3:27pm 





is a spontaneous protect 

a meme weed patch that grew wild 

on a lot of liberal arts college lawns

since b4 "seattle "



That pattern is interesting.

 A lot of the humanities people 

self-weaponize

 for intellectual protection, 

and to triumph in the harsh struggle for tenure and budget allocations. 

The logical fallacies aren't taught anymore,

 as far as I know, outside the college level and some parochial schools. 

So people adopt defensible arguments, 

rather than trying to reason things out,

 avoid mistakes as much as possible 

and 

work to protect their "market share". 

Carson, for what it's worth, 

is an auto-didact 

and punches well above his weight 

in the credentialist ring. 



Posted by J. Alva Scruggs

September 11th

3:55pm 





pardon me for leaving the impression mutualism has no vintage

i thought we were toying

and that is indeed the word for it

toying with the marxian label

for these spaded

liberators of humanity

the trader vulgaris 

i think if u consider their view for a few seconds

you'l see they simply substitute 

look only to others

for 

look only to themselves

in karls original 

which by the magic of the internet

appears in full below

doctored tremove the offending parts:

"This sphere that we are deserting.....

is in fact a very Eden of the innate rights of man "

andaccording to our big M comrade

also the sphere 

where our future paradise too obtains 

if we can so evolve socially by avoiding

the impedence

of too much violent struggle 

here comes the money passage 

"There alone rule Freedom, Equality, Property and Bentham.."

will need to sub jesus for bentmam 

karl explains himself:

"Freedom, because both buyer and seller of a commodity.... are constrained only by their own free will."

"They contract as free agents, and the agreement they come to, is but the form in which they give legal expression to their common will"

"Equality, because each enters into relation with the other, as with a simple owner of commodities, and they exchange equivalent for equivalent"

"Property, because each disposes only of what is his own."

"And Bentham, because each looks only to himself.'

read as

"and jesus because each looks only to the other "

"The only force that brings them together and puts them in relation with each other, is the selfishness (altruism) the gain and 

the private interests of 

each (other)"

Each looks to himself 

(the other)only, and no one troubles himself about the rest (himself)

and just because they do so, do they all, in accordance with the pre-established harmony of things, or under the auspices of an all-shrewd providence, work together to their mutual advantage, for the common weal and in the interest of all. "

i can't resist the next part

the part our mutualist 

comrade kit carson here forbids 

in his neu amerika 

"On leaving this sphere of simple circulation or of exchange of commodities, which furnishes the “Free-trader Vulgaris” with his views and ideas, and with the standard by which he judges a society based on capital and wages, we think we can perceive a change in the physiognomy of our dramatis personae. He, who before was the money-owner, now strides in front as capitalist; the possessor of labour-power follows as his labourer. The one with an air of importance, smirking, intent on business; the other, timid and holding back, like one who is bringing his own hide to market and has nothing to expect but — a hiding"

thank god for

the warnings 

of mutualism or we'd try this in paradise too 

--------------------

ah yes a key offending part

"...within whose boundaries the sale and purchase of labour-power goes on..." 

verboten in mutualville 



Posted by js paine

September 11th

4:19pm 





I'm trying to puzzle that comment out.

 Would you walk me through 

the sequence 

of how you got to the conclusion? 



Posted by J. Alva Scruggs

September 11th

4:39pm 





what conclusion ???

mutualism is other oriented free trade ???

well it is

mutuals are altruistic 

they 

but they belive in commodity metabloism

ie they're a utopian quietistic varient

of the common free trader petit bourgeoise 

utopian??? 

they 

forbid exploitation

kit carson here

may well slug above is weight

but i punch below 

the belt

fond desires 

history scorns

get ball shots from me 

i'm sure yor recognize

there are no queensbury rules 

in klass war 

my sarcasm about 

a ban on exploitation

of wage labor 

in eden II ??

the notion wage labor can be seen as 

like slave labor

and thus amenable 

to a law of abolition 

and prohibition

then of course there's the time less

prohibition or at least inhibition

on ...

hierarchy 

but i'll spare you my spite on that fond dream 



Posted by js paine

September 11th

7:17pm 





I think you're seeing 

a benevolent, Chestertonian, 

petit bourgeois set-up

 as his goal. 

Little happy collectives and individuals 

bringing their goods and services to the market, 

with the absent state 

unable to be coopted.

 Am I off base with that assessment? 



Posted by J. Alva Scruggs

September 11th

7:58pm 





dead on

and no stinking profits just whole earth values

realized by their maker 

and if that's not his vision

then damn me for a presumptious fool

come to think of it...

that's what i am anyway 



Posted by js paine

September 11th

9:31pm 





From what I've read,

 he's inspired by the Mondragon model 

as a step towards 

a better way of organizing production and commerce on the national level, 

with local exchange trading systems 

for the regional level.

 I'm aware of the problems 

and the pressures that has faced.

 Further than this, I can't really say. 



Posted by J. Alva Scruggs

September 11th

10:04pm 





It is an interesting and appealing utopia, though. 

Certainly more appealing (albeit perhaps no more realistic) 

than the Marxist dream 

of the classless, stateless socialist state. 

The current dominant utopia/paraidgm 

of national defense fascist State dirigisme (corporatism) 

(or, for that matter, the lovely thocracy of the Wahabi movement)

, are sadly the dominant dream 

for today's chattering (and chittering) classes. 



Posted by Brian Miller

September 12th

11:01am 





Our evil overlords have been dreading possible utopias 

ever since it became apparent 

that there is more than enough for all. 

The carrying power of our environment 

is immense, in spite of all the reckless abuse.

 The human capacity for getting along and finding ways to resolves conflicts 

is likewise immense.

 The awful cynicism of the "realists" is an artificially 

maintained state of mind in the general public. 

They get rewards, for crying out loud,

 when they echo the quacking points of the pundits.



Carson's ideas for first steps 

are remarkably modest and eminently practical. 

What makes them seem romantic

 is the affinity for batshit crazy,

 wasteful and cruel practices by a paranoid political class,

 that's not at all competent 

in its nominal role, 

but real good at holding a place 

in that class.

 It's the normative 

that's off the deep end. 



Posted by J. Alva Scruggs

September 12th

11:20am 





see 

this left libertarian 

thang has appeal 

to us

may my neo calvinism 

suggest stuff that seems spontaneously

kool prolly has unfore seen consequences

that will look like

present reality

is that crack pot realism ???

no crack pot utopianism

is really very much like its reaism brother

once you get the deeper topology down

ask my friend bill thurston

a mind is a three d surface

and as hegel sez

its got a hole in it 

ah but even his left 

hemi 

was full of sun spots 

many left radical dialectical

folks btw

read karl's

early lava flow :

the german ideology

and fail to see themselves among 

its several targets

case in point

the sandwitch man 

senior walker of british columbia by way of surfs up california

of workless infamy 

i nottice kit carson mentions 

the misery of philosophy 

where i submit mutualism

meets a virtual waterloo 

then again

as a point of chronology

mark only discovered his theory of surplus value

when he made the distinction between labor as exchange value

and the exchamge value of labor power

all this quite beyond a mere labor theory of exchange value

which after all

ben franklin had in his head

and ole bill petty 100 years before that 



Posted by js paine

September 12th

12:48pm 





"Certainly more appealing (albeit perhaps no more realistic) than the Marxist dream of the classless, stateless socialist state.."

my dearest brian:

as a souless marxist

who hasn't had such a dream

since the last tab of acid passed my lips

in 1970

this notion you afix to us marxicocal types

seems not to be a universal characteristic 



Posted by js paine

September 12th

12:54pm 





"Our evil overlords have been dreading possible utopias ever since it became apparent that there is more than enough for all"

george orwell how art thou 



Posted by js paine

September 12th

12:57pm 

Posted by js paine at September 12, 2006 06:59 PM

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