========================= its 1984 the orwell moment has arrived for real and the great chomsky is posing a question “ was the soviet system under the bolsheviks ever really socialism ?” his answer “obviously..... no” (“ most honest marxists now agree ”) but “ the two super powers” both say “yes” ( remember we’re pre gorby here there were still “thought” to be two super powers ) hmmmmm? noam adds up front : “When the world's two great propaganda systems ....” ( are both pushin’ the same dope ) “...... it requires intellectual effort to escape its shackles.” noam chomsky 1984 ============================== my question : in making his determinations has brainy noam here really the mental houdini he claims to be beyond the most obvious exploiter bindings has he escaped all shackles ? has he bothered enough with the details made enough of an “intellectual effort”? or does he open a few easy locks and leave enough unbroken to keep himself still locked up and as a follow up question: this enquiring mind wants to know: how can chomsky know his mind - ghost has actually “dream escaped” these mental “shackles ” ( seeing as this is a pure think piece and all and seeing as chomskys” real body “ remains through out jaunting about on that ever so nice burger campus ) is this in actuality a bold and successful attempt at a mental crash out ? a crash out from the dual super power imposed cerebral mind prison to the free dream weaver fields of possible visions of social progress ? ------------------------------------- ( by the way maybe if he like don q is still stuck in his dreamscape with its quixotic escapades mere ilusion is this ultimately because such non threatening fierce puppy gaddling about can go on un- interupted inside the beast’s belly without causing the slightest indigestion ? is such gabble as noam’s yoked to suckh personally demure body - action actually a welcome respite perhaps even a helpful struggle clump disintegrater an anti coagulator a helping hand for capitalist hegemonists after all he’s got comforts in his loss not onlyis he academically “brilliant and successful” whats more he has a following which has got to be personally gratifying for such a moms little genius talker “ semi monastic peter the hermit a no next day hang over raw people’s “ my radical phase” pied- piper ? well then again thats jumping around and at best ahead.....) --------------------------------------- first question first as noam stated : “ did the society (sic) created(sic) by Lenin and Trotsky and molded further by Stalin and his successors..... ....have some relation to socialism in some meaningful or historically accurate sense of this concept. ” ------- as you might supposd noam’s answer turns out to be a resounding “no no no “ but before we go into that notice first his story line a few guys and their successors have “created“ not just an on going party-regime (of a possibly new type) thats right “created” not just a state apparatus built around an un disclosed pre existing cadre party of a new type no these men have “created “ an actual “ society” a new type of society thats seriously dangerous to its own citizens a crack pot bloody set up but a “society’ non the less no these guys have not just modified or transformed not just revolutionized a society they’ve “created” one !!!!!!! a burnham- orwell “ 1984” type society and in this real world of ours not on the pages of a damn book created it and the monstrosity is still clanging along as of this real date in 1984 yup still goin even if unknowingly the vicious contrivence is a mere 6 years from the scrap heep thanks to the shake apart powers of the real roads human history forces bad social designs to travells along ----------------------------------- my pause here is so i can add this taunt “ hey good buddy ....... why don’t you try designing and “creating “ a real full montee type “society “ yourself some time ” i mean really imagine constructing “ a society” straight out of a mass of post regime collapse scattered human parts human parts now teetering on the edge of a hobbes like destated chaos all agin all stuff zoo escape brake downs cows and bulls runnin wild wolves and rabbits lions loose in the streets you pick yer favorite fable animal types i remember the manhatan black out of ‘77 imagine if that went on for 9 months ..... no lights no night life no farm pens no farm george just a riot of conflicting substantial types at best its like against like gang agin gang building to one war lord people-horde vs another war lord people horde ? self build a society out of this? can’t be done fast enough in one country right? even that blower of any rich enough lord ‘s horn eddie burke got that point right the fantasy of a ground up from scratch man made society a frankenstein society staulking the glode is midwife foolishness a suddenly state free society siezed and mounted “on the run “ thats more like it a from the bottom up boot strap rebuild no time no time the cops will bust it up long long before any state freed peoples can get “voluntarily ” co-ordinated peoples in the bulk like that are too complex and contradictory and besides force will get in there any how bandit force if no other and speaking of force even thats not enough to construct or reconstruct society in a total enough sense to call some bunch of guys authors of that new society pure foolscap even the most determined and ruthlessly compact and coherent pack of social rebuilders even with a detailed plan of re-organization can’t create a brand new society no crafting a whole new way for people to “socialize ” a whole new social totality for most (let alone all ) of the members of any pre existing state dissolved society by any “few ” members of that society is patent non sense nope any lenin type outfit can do no more then seize power build an army and a state around tthe army and use that armed state to modify the behaviour of the society without expecting anything not already apres le deluge implicit in the soft ware of the n million heads of the citizenry this is plain facts take them post enlightenment popular opponents of edmund burke they knew this they recognized the distinction between a state and its underlying “civil” society their main beef with burke was not based on some proto-totalitarian hubris like “we will create new people “ no their beef was with his gotta go slow and through the system no serious leaps no experimentation no exploration no attempt to find the edge of the possible the social fronteer behind their optimism was one implication a human society unlike a single human organism can’t die from botched experiments form overly drastic first time deep reconstructive surgery put a society on “a kidney machine” and you’ll find out whether or not the machine reflects enough knowledge to completely replace a kidney and if you’re wrong the society won’t die like a human patient cause its elements its cells are not so organically specialized and interdependent they all die when the system brakes down human’s are indeed socially interdependent but it ain’t like a body ‘s cells you can hack away at the bastard hack it to pieces in fact and left to itself it’ll regenerate in fact society will strike back and strike back successfully against the state that social engineers poorly the engimeers state will collapse like a bad bridge iwhen suficient wind hitsa it the rads of the french rev claimed only indirectly thru the scalpel of the state both the need and ability to “ cut mold and reshape society “ state power is all you got to make a social revolution with sure society evolves but thru plolitical revolutions and if you’re bent on social transformation realize you are dealing with a conciously effectable but none the less “lawful and transcendentally self producing dialectical totality “ “you do not make you embody and you obey the laws of social motion “ this notion of an atomization of the old society leaving a mass of people ripe for re- building as the moving parts of a new system.... building socialism like a cathedral out of fleshly bricks from basic human units... well thats certainly “ a god like accomplishment “ not even moses did that not even satan in fact jehovah himself though he produced his pilot two person one garden society well ..... look how it straight off dicked itself up ---------------- ------- notice also “ meaningful concept “ not embody ment “concept “ this is pure “head quaters “stuff ain’t it ------------------ ------- if we must deal in conceptions of socialism one can define socialism variously..... whats yours noam ? (later on he gives us his and its not all that bad just clever enough to not permit bolshevisms claims to the title ) “ Since its origins socialism has meant the liberation of working people from exploitation” odd? “ since its origins’ minerva like it sprang full grown and complete at birth but lets proceed notice he doesnot say private exploitation or capitalist exploitation why ? well cause exploitation is exploitation whether by private capitalist or party -state commisars now we know what did not happen in soviet russia in the early twenties now we know that whatever new framus type of society intervened between the social fragmentations of an exploded czar nicholas regime and say the generalissimo party state of 1950’s stalin- it wasn’t “exploitation free” for its working people ------------------- “ In fact, if there is a relation between the soviet state and socialism it is the relation of contradiction. ” ------- this needs exspansion if there is a relation between the soviet system of lenin et al and a system that liberates working people from exploitation .... its a relation of contradiction ..... -- contradiction ? as in opposite noam ? a relation of opposites as in nyet vs oui ? would it be fair to say noam that the soviet system quickly became the very opposite of a liberation of working people from exploitation ? that it became a means towards the exploitation of working people ? we’ll get back to this -------------- ------------- ============================= “ the kremlin and madison ave co exist in symbiotic mischief “ nice phrase noam even if i goosed it some nice and pat as in the two party system here in amerika is really the single business party or the joint incumbancy conspiracy or the .... there was during the kold war a two party rig job globally the party of lenin and castro vs the party of thatcher and humphrey tweedle dee and tweedle dum its all just a very nice unified field really ---------------- ================= here’s the soviet exploitation system of a new type defined: “ Since its origins the Soviet State has attempted to harness the energies of its own population in the service of the men who took advantage of the popular ferment in Russia in 1917 to seize State power. ” ---------- a state system of a new type created by a party of exploiters of a new type a state of a new type in the service of the elite few of a new type as against party’s of the old socialist type in the service of liberating the working people from exploitation party’s and circles that got goinked out of action by this siezed state of these red new klass types on the way to their new type exploitation system socialism prole liberation therte from nope nope the broad workerish masses of the pop just got an exploiting of a new type and by all accounts if ya step out of line its worse then dickensian capitalism there only jails not death gulags around the corner from bleak house ------------- “One major ideological weapon employed to this end has been the claim that the State managers.....” ------ state managers ? whaaaaaa ? give us the word noam be these beasts part of a inner party outer party the elite kremlin apes or are the rest of the intelligensia if they fly right members too or are they another klass? oh so many silly questions ..... like the free white yeoman fringe klass in the south not slave owners supported by slaves but sharing in the slave based systems better off cause at least we’re free that is if their not naughty and get gulag oppresssed ? -------- resuming the flow ....---------- ( these state managers) claim they are leading their own society and the world towards the socialist ideal ----- ie an end to exploitation --------------- an imposibility as any socialist -- surely any serious Marxist -- should have understood at once --- yes an impossibility as in by the soviet system really just imposing an exploitation of a new type and how the hell is that possibly a beneficial (let alone necessary) move leading on toward liberation from exploitation there is either exploitation or no exploitation right ? and there can’t possibly be progressive stages of exploitation progressive stages as exploitation turns itself step by step into its opposite as all “serious marxist” should see “at once” --------- ----------as soon as the reved up workers in the plants came under red managers’ orders and red managers’ orders came under red state orders and red state orders came under red party orders and red party orders came under red central committee orders and red cc orders came under red politbureau orders and red politbureau orders came under oh no ...stalins orders zoink ----------- ------------- --- whats more not onbly is it impossible its ....---------- a lie of mammoth proportions as history has revealed since the earliest days of the Bolshevik regime ------ okay fair enough kerensky gets topled and we get lenin and go thru stalin to k and b and then end up with gorby a kerensky with splotches a bloody senseless circle ride right ? ----------- but what diff might have been noam ? say its russia 1917 all over again where was the socialist road right then and there ?----------------- =================================== The taskmasters have attempted to gain legitimacy and support by exploiting the aura of socialist ideals and the respect that is rightly accorded these ideals to conceal their own ritual practice as they destroyed every vestige of socialism. -------------- there was some socialism? vestiges remained to be destroyed ? till when ? tell us all chom chom --------------------- ===================== --------wally western gibberish simbiotic of course also call this fraud the real socialism so....-------- the only alternative to capitalist exploitation is ------- the 'socialist' dungeon -------- again what other alternatives existed then or now i get the feeling socialism is like the new jerusalem some day it will just drop down t on us from heaven and till then we need not to fall for anti christs like lenin we must nourish ourselves on prefiguations like catalonia in 37 or turin in1919 fleeting moments of council communism and riotous over throw those are the true congreations only times of communion with the glorious free and fair future our ever so brief snacks till the coming endless banquet --------------- ======================== ------repeat -------- The Soviet leadership t portrays itself as socialist to protect its right to wield the club and Western ideologists adopt the same pretense in order to forestall the threat of a more free and just society ------- oh now noam is it that lower order rebellions are held back till hope arrives in their heads hope for a freer juster system is it like believing in tinker belle i mean really believing then and only then will tink glow again -------------- This joint attack on socialism has been highly effective in undermining it in the modern period ---------- the caps say don’t go that way bro its a dungeon but the dungeon isn’t really the socialist road don’t look that way bro why can’t the bros see the more free and just road ? too conned to look ? hard to see ? not real ? what ? if you see it noam why can’t the bros see it ? oh ya need to make an intellectual effort an effort of the mind the overwhelming majority of wage heads are too exploited too fatigued too beknighted too bamboozled too beguiled be able to muster ------------------- ======================= The ritual denunciation of the so-called 'socialist' States is replete with distortions and often outright lies. Nothing is easier than to denounce the official enemy and to attribute to it any crime : -------- but from where cameth forth your counter thoughts noam thoughts that allowed you to free your mind ? ------------------ ----- i’ve kinda skipped some signature chomsky agonic rant here its always availible at your local rad store front anyway and too much bristle krieging wil throw ya of the sent but here’s noam gettin on with it ---------------- =============================== yes lenin’s sexy It is also worth noting the great appeal of Leninist doctrine to the modern intelligentsia in periods of conflict and upheaval. This doctrine affords the 'radical intellectuals' the right to hold State power and to impose the harsh rule of the 'Red Bureaucracy,' ------- see its good angel double domer ( liberty ship socialists like noam) vs bad angel double domer (lenin ) ------------- the 'new class,' ------- here it is the new class this dream of the attic shut in loser of gettin at long last to be large and in charge hey for tainted fruit it’s a pervasive attraction thats from whom pre rev cadre are recruited ------------ in the terms of Bakunin's prescient analysis a century ago ------ note he quotes Bakunin that stinking giant elephant plop ----------- As in the Bonapartist State denounced by Marx they become the 'State priests' and "parasitical excrescence upon civil society" that rules it with an iron hand. ------ noam not having a real class notion fixed firmly in his head sees an oopportunist fraction of an expropriated class as not only a klass in itself if not yet for itself but a brand new klassin itself albeit a non self subsisting klass in itself but rather the opposite a pure parasite klass in itself its share of the suck determined by each individual members rank in a mojo snake oil ideo-cratic blood sacraficing pharasaical ruling state apparatus like the aztecs had playing no materially necessary roles at all purely totally absolutely dispensible a vampire class worse even then rentiers who are only the vampire fraction of a klass that has some functional types too and even not like feudal clerics themselves but the landlord class (fandango division) no this new klass of state managers are a pure stand alone fandango klass you may ask what about the intellectuals ? what are they ? are they a a a .....what ? ...a social ummm group? regrettably they seemto play a still indispensible role no red system know that’s without some experts not yet any way but the hack party state management cadre are here and a new klass of exploiters plain new pure blood suckers no more no less shit its so proto jacobin wheres my axe ?---------- ----------why how 18th century you are noam ! ---------------------- -======================== In periods when there is little challenge to State capitalist institutions the same fundamental commitments lead the 'new class' to serve as State managers and ideologists, "beating the people with the people's stick," in Bakunin's words. It is small wonder that intellectuals find the transition from 'revolutionary Communism' to 'celebration of the West' such an easy one, replaying a script that has evolved from tragedy to farce over the past half century. ----------- burgers are what burgers do but a new class noam? one that can morph back to a burger klass why make up the diff then ? use occams razor makes em the one same klass they really always are still burger after all this revoltin ------------------ In essence, all that has changed is the assessment of where power lies. Lenin¹s dictum that "socialism is nothing but state capitalist monopoly made to benefit the whole people," the people must of course trust the benevolence of their leaders ---- this nicely ---------- expresses the perversion of 'socialism' to the needs of the State priests , and allows us to comprehend the rapid transition between positions that superficially seem diametric opposites, but in fact are quite close ----- as in post 89 eastern europe this is the convergence egg fry only cooked up over hard vs say a galbraiths sunny side up ------------- ==================== The terminology of political and social discourse is vague and imprecise ----- boy ain’t you been showin that here noamy ------------- and constantly debased by the contributions of ideologists of one or another stripe ----- implication the sir noams of the peoples round table by contrast being of pure just heart and sound free mind view all from camelots castle keep towers outward past green meadows sweet to tin town and poison river city -------------- ----- finally here comes the love train keeds ------------- . Since its origins, socialism has meant the liberation of working people from exploitation. ------see where i got that from ------------ As the ---- council comunist -------- Marxist theoretician Anton Pannekoek observed, "this goal is not reached and cannot be reached by a new directing and governing class substituting itself for the bourgeoisie," but can only be "realized by the workers themselves being master over production." Mastery over production by the producers is the essence of socialism ------- is this just the first def pulled from the back end forward thru its front door ----------- and means to achieve this end have regularly been devised in periods of revolutionary struggle, against the bitter opposition of the traditional ruling classes and the 'revolutionary intellectuals' guided by the common principles of Leninism and Western managerialism as adapted to changing circumstances. But the essential element of the socialist ideal remains: to convert the means of production into the property of freely associated producers and thus the social property of people who have liberated themselves from exploitation by their master ,as a fundamental step towards a broader realm of human freedom ------aka the jump to the new jerusalem -------- ============================= The Leninist intelligentsia have a different agenda. They fit Marx's description of the 'conspirators' who "pre-empt the developing revolutionary process" and distort it to their ends of domination; "Hence their deepest disdain for the more theoretical enlightenment of the workers about their class interests," which include the overthrow of the Red Bureaucracy and the creation of mechanisms of democratic control over production and social life. For the Leninist, the masses must be strictly disciplined, while the socialist will struggle to achieve a social order in which discipline "will become superfluous" as the freely associated producers "work for their own accord" (Marx). Libertarian socialism, furthermore, does not limit its aims to democratic control by producers over production, but seeks to abolish all forms of domination and hierarchy in every aspect of social and personal life, an unending struggle, since progress in achieving a more just society will lead to new insight and understanding of forms of oppression that may be concealed in traditional practice and consciousness. =================================== The Leninist antagonism to the most essential features of socialism was evident from the very start. In revolutionary Russia, Soviets and factory committees developed as instruments of struggle and liberation, with many flaws, but with a rich potential. Lenin and Trotsky, upon assuming power, immediately devoted themselves to destroying the liberatory potential of these instruments, establishing the rule of the Party, in practice its Central Committee and its Maximal Leaders - exactly as Trotsky had predicted years earlier, as Rosa Luxembourg and other left Marxists warned at the time, and as the anarchists had always understood. Not only the masses, but even the Party must be subject to "vigilant control from above," so Trotsky held as he made the transition from revolutionary intellectual to State priest. Before seizing State power , the Bolshevik leadership adopted much of the rhetoric of people who were engaged in the revolutionary struggle from below, but their true commitments were quite different. This was evident before and became crystal clear as they assumed State power in October 1917. A historian sympathetic to the Bolsheviks, E.H. Carr, writes that "the spontaneous inclination of the workers to organize factory committees and to intervene in the management of the factories was inevitably encourage by a revolution with led the workers to believe that the productive machinery of the country belonged to them and could be operated by them at their own discretion and to their own advantage" (my emphasis). For the workers, as one anarchist delegate said, "The Factory committees were cells of the future... They, not the State, should now administer." ====================== But the State priests knew better, and moved at once to destroy the factory committees and to reduce the Soviets to organs of their rule. On November 3, Lenin announced in a "Draft Decree on Workers' Control" that delegates elected to exercise such control were to be "answerable to the State for the maintenance of the strictest order and discipline and for the protection of property." As the year ended, Lenin noted that "we passed from workers' control to the creation of the Supreme Council of National Economy," which was to "replace, absorb and supersede the machinery of workers' control" (Carr). "The very idea of socialism is embodied in the concept of workers' control," one Menshevik trade unionist lamented; the Bolshevik leadership expressed the same lament in action, by demolishing the very idea of socialism. ======================= Soon Lenin was to decree that the leadership must assume "dictatorial powers" over the workers, who must accept "unquestioning submission to a single will" and "in the interests of socialism," must "unquestioningly obey the single will of the leaders of the labour process." As Lenin and Trotsky proceeded with the militarization of labour, the transformation of the society into a labour army submitted to their single will, Lenin explained that subordination of the worker to "individual authority" is "the system which more than any othe assures the best utilization of human resources" -- or as Robert McNamara expressed the same idea, “vital decision-making...must remain at the top... the real threat to democracy comes not from overmanagement, but from undermanagement"; "if it is not reason that rules man, then man falls short of his potential,” and management is nothing other than the rule of reason, which keeps us free. At the same time, 'factionalism' - - i.e., any modicum of free expression and organization - was destroyed "in the interests of socialism,” as the term was redefined for their purposes by Lenin and Trotsky, who proceeded to create the basic proto-fascist structures converted by Stalin into one of the horrors of the modern age.1 Failure to understand the intense hostility to socialism on the part of the Leninist intelligentsia (with roots in Marx, no doubt), and corresponding misunderstanding of the Leninist model, has had a devastating impact on the struggle for a more decent society and a livable world in the West, and not only there. It is necessary to find a way to save the socialist ideal from its enemies in both of the world's major centres of power, from those who will always seek to be the State priests and social managers, destroying freedom in the name of liberation. =============================Posted by pinky at April 27, 2005 06:46 AM
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